XenSwg

Jachari · Newbie User is Offline Joined: 05 Aug 2006 Posts: 20

Lars, I am not sure where you are going with this post. In fact, noone has suggested that Q should go anything alone. Furthermore, I think we are all in agreement that we, as XEN, need to push the issue in terms of an Alliance. My post was pretty clear regarding a council approach to business within the guild (XEN). This is open for feedback. Please respond to it.

I also agree that we have been dragging things out with the Alliance in terms of setting it up. However, I will tell you that we, as a guild, are not all on the same page with it yet. So...that being said, we cannot expect others to fall into place when we ourselves are not to that point yet. Before we take all this public to all guilds there needs to be a common message that we all support with an actual VOTE. We must bring this topic to council, a TRUE council. Let us take the time to gather ourselves and have one voice relative to our commitment on a path forward for a Rebel Alliance.

There is no need to bash effort to date. We all know it is time to act. If Larsay's words serve nothing else, they should serve the fact that it IS time to MOVE...move forward in actually establishing the Alliance that we have all discussed.

We get there together, or not at all!

Jachari · Newbie User is Offline Joined: 05 Aug 2006 Posts: 20

Q, by changing this thread to include the "Rebel Alliance" discussion you have basically made the other thread redundant. Let's keep this thread for internal XEN discussion and the other for Rebel Alliance discussion.

Larsay · Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 11:48 pm Post subject:

Q, by changing this thread to include the "Rebel Alliance" discussion you have basically made the other thread redundant. Let's keep this thread for internal XEN discussion and the other for Rebel Alliance discussion.

Larsay · Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 5:36 am Post subject:

I am sorry if what I said scared or bothered anyone. For that I am sorry. I will try my absolute best to explain where I am coming from, why I feel this way.

First and foremost I have not ever said nor do I want to see the council dissolved, removed, or replaced.

What I have seen, and I have watched though happen is this;

Something happens. Could be poor run -n with another guild (JP is a great example), could be a disagreement, or uncertainty in the guild. Q is not around. Could be like recently when his internet was down, or just he is offline spending time with his girlfriend. Don’t matter problem has presented it’s self, large or small. What happens?

Typically nothing; it’s left to sit till Quantum logs on. This is neither efficient nor right; this is in fact defeating what Quantum has even asked for in everyone taking a role in the daily management of the guild.

So should the person that is presented with the problem just solve it then? Probably not…
Why? Simple: personal byist, which is worse on every level then a general byist, because you will always favor yourself. So do you take it to just anyone else to help you with it? Again, my opinion no: while we are all friends, we are friends with each other for different reasons. We all are going to help each other slightly differently. This is due to being different people. Again you have used personal byist.

So who do you take the problem to? Well ideally we all have different strengths and weaknesses. That is again part of being different people. Some of us are very diplomatic, others very precise and analytical, etc. These things do not only make us who we are but also makes each of us more capable of doing particular tasks. For example someone who gets irritated obviously very easy should not be dealing with problems, as they are going to make poor decisions.

So what do you do, a problem has presented itself and has to be solved, and Quantum is not on to turn to. This is the answer I seek, because this goes on. If this bothers you, then I am sorry. It bothers me very much as well. I don’t think anyone can tell me this has not happened. It has happened. I have been in tells with each of you when a problem has arisen like this.

Why do we wait to turn things over to Quantum? Simple: the buck stops there, and it should. The problem is Quantum can not be on 24/7. In turn if we grow and we gain members where does the buck stop at when Quantum is not on, or can no be on? Does the problem just sit and fester? Or does one person make a decision? If one person just makes a decision, why does that one person get to make the decision? Do we call a council meeting? Must we wait till all members of the council are on to make this decision? If we don’t wait for all, how many do we wait for?

These are all questions I have asked. These are all questions that have been left un-answered. No, not all these questions have been asked here on the forums till right now, but they have been asked.

I see alienation talked about a lot. Not wanting to alienate people. I understand that, but our current system Alienates people very much. I am actually alienated quite often. For example bringing GS, which has been brought up many of times for why certain things are done, alienates me on some level. I hate to be blunt… but GS did fail. Even Quantum agreed with that. Why did it fail? One of the factors to its failure was something that transpired between Quiet and Haleigh, and one went off and started their own guild while the other guild hoped a little. I hate to be blunt, and I hate to pull a low blow… but guys… This just about happened again. It took a 3rd party stepping in trying to resolve it to get us back on track.

This brings me to the point of not wanting anyone in the guild being set as a person who tries to resolve guild issues. That is fine. I respect that. Then people… I will be blunt. Deal with your own problems. Pull no one into them. I know you often say, as has often been said to me: “I didn’t want to bring you in the middle of this.” I respect that, but that’s not true. If you didn’t want to, you would not have done so, or continued to do so. It was done however because these friendships most of us have with one another are so deep, and there is so much history and personal things behind it that we are often too blind to find an answer on our own, so wee seek help… advice… and guidance. You all can tell me this is not true till you are blue in the face, but true be told I have again been in tells with each an every one of you that can read this thread (Minus Rakil and Quiet) at some point or another about one of your problems.

There is resistance to my ideas. I expected that, and respect that, and in fact I encourage that. Unfortunately as it is very little gets done, but by certain people. Take the poll on the guild growing or not. There are 3 votes casted. I know who casted those 3 votes. This is important issues people. This guild and its issues should take priority over who is flaming who on the forums. If its not, I will be very blunt… you are NOT pulling your weight in this guild. You are NOT assisting in the day to day management of this guild. If you want it to grow, how the hell is it going to grow?

Look at it like a business with poor management. How are they normally? Are they successful? What’s their turn over rate like? Do you even want to shop there?

I look at our forums now. There are 3 people who check them regularly, there are 3 people working on this regularly, and there are 3 people who want to see this guild and this faction become all it can be. We also have one council member who has not signed up to the forums.

And we are talking about growing larger… We are talking about trying to give birth to this alliance…

Yes be bothered; very bothered. I sure as hell am.
P.S.
If you all don’t see this, then tell me. I will be very blunt. I love you guys. I love this guild. If you all don’t see it then there is nothing more I can do for this guild I am afraid. I will gladly bow out of it.

Jachari · Newbie User is Offline Joined: 05 Aug 2006 Posts: 20

Jachari · Newbie User is Offline Joined: 05 Aug 2006 Posts: 20

I do agree with this point very much. Lars has a very, very good point about the most recent addition to XEN and their eventual departure. Unfortunately I was not involved in much at all with the new additions. Truly only Zesh a couple times in Restuss. I think it is definately possible that we need to have some sort of protocol around HOW individuals are brought in and HOW they are introduced to everyone. Especially the XEN council.

Larsay · Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:04 pm Post subject:

Yes see this is precisely why I am bothered so much. I don't see everyone to be very fair pulling their own weight.

I do want to point out one other thing on why I disagree with all council members having the "same right." Allow me to elaborate and why please. This became a large frustration to many of us and I am not trying to pick on a single person at all...

We have problem with Zesh and Vikis, mainly that problem was negativity and that lack of wanting to be part of the whole. Haleigh talked to them, but only after this was brought up did we know the talks took place. Furthermore, it really didn't seem to solve a lot which caused need for continued talks.

Now... I did not talk to them because I did have an advantage of being a chatter box, I knew Hal spoke to Zesh. Now... if I "handled" it as all council members have equal and same rights, they would have got a talk from, Haleigh, and myself. Again if we all did our jobs a talk would have come in from Quantum as well...

Now I don't know about you... but I personally would not want to be jumped on by all three. I would have been very upset sense I was already spoken to by one council member, and now three have jumped on me for it. It gives that impression that the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing.

Now in the event that Haleigh is the guild Ombudsman, I have no need to talk to them, but rather voice my concerns to her, so that she can then speak to them. This way rather then every member of council jumping down on them a single person does it and reports back.

While every member of the council has the right to do this I feel, and should do so in the event such as the Ombudsman is absent, when they are present or going to be present it becomes much more fair for the general member.

Also take with Tol right now. Last I heard we were going to guild him. I have not seen him guilded yet, or online. I am assuming he quit in the end. Though I am not sure. No one has said. I would take a safe gamble that it would be safe to assume he quit. I have been asked this but I am afraid I do not have the answer to that. Again if one persons specialaty was to work with, and talk to new or potential recruits this answer becomes readly available as we now all know whome to turn to and ask. Or prehapes the answer is out there, and the information has just not be relayed, which was the original purpose of these boards. If that is the case then that bothers me too because its means we are not using the tools we have set before us to their fullest potential and falls back onto not everyone pulling their fair weight in the day to day operations of this guild.

I do feel all council members should be equal, but I do feel that knowing who certain people are to be reached for certain things, as well as certain people handling certain tasks cuts down on a lot of confusion, and needless drama.

I also realize that GS is your roots and I respect that. I know only what I am told. If I am told GS split and fractured because of a event that transpired between two of its members and this is why GS does not exist to me that constitutes as failure. Much like my first EQ guild that split due to an argument between my RL b/f and I. Things such as this are not bad, but become great learning exsperiances if one can choose to look at it this way. Or correct me if I am wrong please, because this is the information I am feed when I ask questions in order to learn.

Running everything on friendships and friendships alone is great, but its also highly violable, and unfair to anyone not in that clique.

I dont know maybe I just exspect too much of people. I dont exspect anymore of anyone then i do of myself.

Sorry now I am just rambling. I have been very frustrated lately. I need to get with you later in tells though Q about something privite.

Jachari · Newbie User is Offline Joined: 05 Aug 2006 Posts: 20

So, you are of the opinion that XEN should not grow? There should be no steps toward forming a closer Alliance? Things should stay as they are?

I know this was more posted in response to larsay's posts but the issue at hand is the question of growth. Should we? and if so how? The rest is just a history lesson.

Larsay · Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 12:41 pm Post subject:

No offence Haleigh... this is not about just my thoughts or my opinions. If that is whats being shown, the someone. Maybe myself is not being clear...

I did not ask for XEN to grow. It was also not brought up initially by me. I just after hearing it time and time again brought to me finally posted a Poll. Both Jach and Quantum are very much behind this. If Quantum as the final say, the I would say his saying that he wants us to all talk about it is his say. This is what I have gone with, and that is also based on what you have told me as far as Quantum being the end dealeo.

Quantum has stated on this thread he wishes for us all to take part in the day to day operations. This means as has been exspressed to me... no not all decisions end with him. If he is not on and something needs to be done, he exspects us to act. Not just sit and wait for him. Everytime I see this, or bring up a concern you always leave it with "We will talk to Quantum about it." Or "Quantum will decide." This is what bothers Quantum. He has said it in his posts above.

You are right. XEN operates on trust, unfortiantly that trust was absent before I joined. There was feelings of deception from day one of tells to me. Orginally I sent no tells hardly out. I asked for little help. I tried to keep to myself. That is why ultimatly what happened between you and Quantum happened. You know this, I know this. Please dont try and make it out like nothing happened.

You told me today you felt I was more bothered by this then Quantum was. No. That is not the case. I am more vocal is all. You have walked around like nothing happened. Quantum swollowed his pride and did what he felt was right, and started these forums to try and help open communications.

I understand you have not had much time to read the XEN forums, but that is not my fault. This tool was placed for us to use by Quantum. You have had time to troll the SoE forums. I personally feel XEN forums are more importaint. Why? Its us after all. That is a personal opinion. I am not the only one who shares this opinion. You do not have to agree with that, and I respect that.

No. XEN has not been the largest PvP force sense launch. I have not been around sense launch, but Ageis has. He tells me many things and when I don't belive him always finds someone else thats a vet older then dirt to comfirm. XEN has been the largest PvP force sense the CU they tell me. I btw never asked them of these things, but I did mention to Ageis the Alliance idea, and he said we would be faced with resistant possable to it by the older vets that may only be over come by things such as personal respect for people.

So you say come to you. Why should I belive you and only you? Ageis has never lied to me. Nor do I feel he would lie to me. He is too older then dirt. So who do I come to when I hear verying stories? Personally I try and just rule them out.

It was you who said the only way for XEN to rise above Zero is to become the Alpha guild. Those were your words. That is why I voted for growth. I felt personally to do that growth was needed. I am afraid that perhapes I did not understand what you meant by become the "Alpha" guild. Was it mearly just try and horde the vets? We are not all friends with everyone. Like you said again Quantum has final say though, Quantum supports growth.

So to answer the question who is not pulling their full weight?

You Haleigh. You build you up. You then tear others down when mad. I have many times been online trying to help with things such as bases but doing class work. I offer to come help, or even stay on later and you tell me: "No Lars, you have done more for this or the faction then your share" or something to those lines... Then you jump on me and tell me when mad like in the XFire log how little I do... So what is it? Do I do, or do I do not? Or is this mearly something to try and hold over my head? When it comes to Restuss I have more hours logged there then any other Rebel, but I am sorry. Maybe that was not as importaint.

Quantum started the original channel to attempt to orginize that too was alot of work. Did he do? or did he do not while you busted your tail?

Jach hours that makes it so he can not PvP as much, but he has spent hours working on this Alliance idea, which BTW Other rebel leaders want you are not all of them... So has he done, or not done at all?

People want this to remove this additude. That is why. It does not motivate people.

Haleigh in the end, you are not XEN. You are a member just like me. We both have sweat and tears into it and those I feel are unfair to messure because neither of us can truelly say what the other has gone through. It is feasable possable that I have give up just as much or even more then you for this guild in a shorter time span. I am not saying I have. I am just saying you can not say I have not either and be just.

On the note of growth. Quantum (who has the final call) has said that votes can be called, and agreed in the vote happening for guild growth. As it stats there are 3 in favor. 0 opposed.

Quantum has also exspressed that votes have a time limit on them in the future. Unless a reason for a veto can be presented the vote will dictate the outcome.